After discussing the upgrading of Yexian County and the issuance of money, Du Zhongxiao said: "Yexian County was upgraded to Yezhou, and after the iron supervisor was in charge of the Salt and Iron Division, there were still nearly 100,000 households in Yezhou, most of whom lived together. Of course, it is possible to divide it into several counties, but it is very inconvenient, and it is better to have a unified jurisdiction of one state. ”

Wang Yaochen said: "A state is in charge of 100,000 households, and it is very difficult to manage it without dividing it into counties. It is better to divide it into several counties. ”

Du Zhongxiao said: "Most of the households are gathered together, even if the places below are far away, there are still too many households in the state city. From ancient times to the present, where is there such a densely populated place other than the capital? You have to put a lot of effort into managing it. ”

Wang Yaochen said: "You can compare Kaifeng Mansion, set up more officials, more soldiers, and inspect day and night." With the financial resources there, in addition to the iron prison, it is not much worse than Kaifeng Mansion, and it can afford it. ”

Du Zhongxiao said: "Da Shen, according to the following opinion, this place in Ye County is different. The reason why so many people are gathered is mainly because of the proximity to the railway prison, convenient transportation, and the water power of Fangcheng Mountain, which is suitable for opening factories. Unlike Kaifeng Prefecture, most of the population there are customers, and in addition to the people who open the factory, the most people are the people who work in the factory. In addition to factories, there are workers in docks and freight yards, plus people who run various shops. In this kind of place, if you don't go deep into the factory, you can't actually manage it below. ”

Hanlin bachelor Wang Zhu said: "What if you can't manage the following? The imperial court governs the world, and it is impossible to manage everything. As long as the people are stable and there are no people who violate the law and discipline, there is no need to rule the people below. ”

Wang Zhu is Wang Yaochen's father, and he can't help but participate in the discussion between Du Zhongxiao and the fallen son. For many officials in this era, as long as the place is stable and there is nothing to do, why should they take care of everything? Du Zhongxiao's worries, in the eyes of many officials, are already troublesome.

Du Zhongxiao said: "Nehan, this is what I have been emphasizing, the factory is different from the previous farmers farming, and it is also different from opening a store. Compared to those, the factory is more closed, and the output is very simple. If the imperial court cannot control the following, then the factory becomes an independent world, and the imperial court has nowhere else to start. Moreover, the workers are not the same as the peasants, they are well managed, similar to the army......"

Hearing this, Fan Zhen on the side said: "Zhongcheng is right, I see a few factories in the capital, they are very strict about what they do, and they are really not good at doing it without training." They are accustomed to listening to the foreman and doing things, and they are a bit like the army. ”

Du Zhongxiao nodded: "Such a crowd, if the imperial court doesn't care about it, it is completely in the hands of the factory staff, it is difficult to guarantee that something will happen in the future." The prevention of micro problems has been out of a place like Yexian, and the imperial court has to find a way there to see how to manage the factory. ”

In the words of Du Zhongxiao's previous life, workers are naturally organized and disciplined, which is very different from peasants. Regardless of them, if they are controlled by the employees who opened the factory, whether there will be chaos in the future, it is not good.

As soon as they mentioned the possibility of chaos, Wang Yaochen and Wang Zhu kept silent. This issue is very sensitive, sensitive enough that even if the court pays the price, it must participate as much as possible, and cannot let the people control this force.

Wen Yanbo said: "According to Zhongcheng, Ye County has been promoted to a state, how should it be governed?" Except for Kaifeng Mansion, there is really no experience in governing this kind of place in the world. Everything is difficult at the beginning, if you want to cure Ye County, you should think of a way. ”

Du Zhongxiao said: "To cure the place, it is natural to rely on the strength of the place. At present, the imperial court governs the localities, except for the army, which is nothing more than the officials sent to the localities, the local officials, and the errand servants assigned to the people. In the past, there was no money in the local government, and many public officials were actually errand laborers, especially in the county. Yexian is different from other places, there is a lot of money and grain, it just depends on whether it can be collected. I thought that in order to cure Yexian County, it could not be the same as other places, and it was necessary to make the local government rich from the system. If the local government has money, it can hire public officials, and it can serve the people and cooperate with the officials, so that it can be cured. ”

Liu Xin said: "What Zhongcheng wants, you might as well say it clearly." ”

Du Zhongxiao arched his hand: "Xianggong, governing the locality, in the final analysis, is to let the people do what they want without violating the law." In the past, when people farmed the land, they thought nothing more than to overcharge money and grain, and to pay lightly. But in the factory, there are at least two kinds of people. One is the factory owners, they used money to open factories, just to make money. I want nothing more than to sell more goods, the cost of goods is low, the selling price is high, and I can make more money. There are also workers who work on wages, and they want to work with less effort and get more money. This is different, and the court must distinguish clearly. ”

The relationship between the capitalists and the factories is complicated, coupled with the relationship with the government, it is impossible for Du Zhongxiao to say too clearly. One is the issue of one's own level, and the other is that the current officials understand it, and they can't figure out the relationship.

In this era, there were no typical capitalists, and certainly no typical group of workers. They appeared because with the beginning of industrialization, it was for the capitalists to make more money by opening factories. For workers, it is much better to work in a factory than to farm. The Song Dynasty did not restrict the movement of population, as long as they made money, naturally there were people who did not become peasants and workers.

In general, this is a relatively open and liberal era. The imperial court and officials continued the style of the past five generations, gradually liberalized personal restrictions, and introduced laws and regulations to develop towards employment. The common people are accustomed to a life with less governance, and slowly build up confidence in the government, and like to fight lawsuits when there are conflicts. Both capital and workers have a large space to invest in the factory.

Wen Yanbo said: "There is no shortage of money and grain in Ye County, in addition to the imperial court taxes, it is natural to collect money and grain to support officials and officials." Zhongcheng said, in addition to sending more officials in Ye County, you also have to hire more public officials and take care of everything? ”

Du Zhongxiao said: "Of course, you can't take care of everything, but the imperial court has to take care of important things." In my opinion, in a place like Ye County, where there is no shortage of money and food, officials should be systematic. The imperial court sent officials to hold the power of the locality, and according to the orders of the officials, the officials governed the locality. The local people worked for the servants according to their household registration. Officials, officials, and errands perform their duties and form a whole. ”

In addition to the army, officials, officials, and errands are the people who govern the place, but they were not subdivided before, but were roughly separated. Most of the officials here have been local officials for many years, and it is not difficult to understand what Du Zhongxiao said. Most of the counties, due to financial constraints, could not afford to pay the officials, so the large local households took turns to flow into the county government as officials. Some of the state officials were hired, and some were drawn from the county in turn. The actual distinction between officials and poor officials is not obvious.

Du Zhongxiao said: "The imperial court is not trapped in money and food, and there are conditions to distinguish clearly the official system. Officials are sent by the imperial court, and the most important feature is that they are rogue officials, have no property in the local area, and hold actual power. Officials are locals, hired by the government, and have no term. The errand service is civil servitude, and the people take turns to serve on errands. In this way, the responsibilities are clear, local affairs are handled by officials, power belongs to officials, and errand servants are the power used by officials. Since the officers themselves are the people under their control, they can supervise the officials when they are officers. Therefore, in local affairs, the officers can report the officials, and the officials rely on the officers' reports to supervise the officials. In this way, the local officials were connected to the people. ”

Everyone listened and nodded together, thinking about whether what Du Zhongxiao said was feasible.

Wang Zhu said: "In this way, officials are in power, and they still have to know the affairs of officials." Only by knowing the affairs of the officials can we know whether the officials are doing things, whether they are in accordance with the rules, and whether they seek personal gain. If you don't know what to do, how can power be so easy to manage? ”

Du Zhongxiao said: "Not bad. When officials first take office, the imperial court should let them study, just like a military academy. ”

There is a three-month study period. However, in these three months, it was more of a friendship among officials, and not much was taught. In this era, officials were still relatively casual, governing the localities, relying more on their own understanding, and learning not much.

Wen Yanbo thought about it again and again, and said: "What Zhongcheng said naturally has its truth. However, there are very few officials who can do this. Now the prefect of Baiting and the magistrate of Yexian County, I am afraid that it will be difficult to do it. ”

Du Zhongxiao said: "Judging from the ten days I have been in Ye County, I'm afraid it's difficult. If you want to do it, you should send another competent official. ”

Personnel issues are not discussed now, Wen Yanbo nodded, and then did not talk about it more.

Ouyang Xiu said: "The governance of the place is clearly divided into officials, officials, and poor, although the words are good, but I always feel that it is difficult to do. Just like Ye County, it is not easy to check people's households, and it will be even more difficult to let them take turns on errands. As for the officials, needless to say, there are few people in the state and county who are familiar with officials, where can they be picked? ”

Du Zhongxiao said: "Neihan, in the past, when governing the locality, due to the lack of money and food, and the lack of personnel, he often didn't ask whether the people who did the work were suitable, as long as there were people. In order to be safe, they chose more local wealthy families, and when something happened, they used their property to make up for the loss. But I don't know, how can these children of wealthy families not think about their own family when they are officials in the yamen? For officials, many things can only be turned a blind eye and cannot be too detailed. ”

Everyone nodded in unison. Officials are officials, how many people are conscientious? Most of the time, it is just a guarantee that the rule will not come out, and everything will be fine when the money and food are collected. Which of the people gains and which suffers, and where can they control so much?

Ouyang Xiudao: "As Zhongcheng said, is it possible that the local government chooses officials and also opens schools?" Choose the right person, go to school to study, and if you agree, you will enter the yamen to do things, and if you don't, you will retreat. ”

Wen Yanbo said: "If you do this, you will change a lot." I won't talk about this matter today, so let's go back and think about it, and we'll discuss it next time. In addition to these, there is anything else that can be said and discussed by everyone. ”